"Dark" religions

Do you practise Wicca, Paganism, other alternative faiths, or even Christianity? Or are you more into spirituality than traditional religion. Either way, drop in and share your ideas. (Anti-religiosity will not be tolerated - bigots, stay out.)

Which of the following BEST describes your personal faith?

Christian (incl. Catholic, mainline Protestant, evangelical, orthodox)
5
18%
Other Mideast originating faiths (Jewish, Muslim)
0
No votes
Eastern religion (Hindu, Buddhist, etc.)
1
4%
Wiccan
2
7%
Pagan or other pantheism (e.g. Norse, Greek mythology)
4
14%
Satanist
2
7%
Atheist - there are no supreme beings, good or evil
2
7%
Agnostic - unsure of the existence of a supreme being
6
21%
Something not described above (elaborate in comments, if you wish)
6
21%
 
Total votes : 28

"Dark" religions

Postby Arturius Maximus » Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:50 am

Do you reliably get the question "do you worship the devil?" when talking to people who are not at all connected with the gothic scene? I do, even from relatives who know that I am quite religious.

I'm curious as to the breakdown of religious faith (or lack thereof) in our little community. If you like to be private about such things, you can just vote anonymously in the poll, if you wish.

For those who don't know me well, I'm a fairly devout (or so I would like to believe) Hindu. Past gfs who were pagan have pointed out to me a lot of similarities between paganism and Hinduism, and some even consider it a form of paganism.

I hope we can have an intelligent discussion in this thread without it becoming controversial like certain...past topics. If it does start to head south, I will just delete it. I would make one request...that people not use the thread to bash Christians or Christianity. Although my days in that faith are behind me, I find that it has become much too fashionable to attack that group.

So....what belief system turns YOUR crank :?:
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Postby lividwist » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:01 pm

moi, i m agnostic. 8) yeah, that s right, i dont believe that there s anyone or anything sitting and dictating what is right or not. There are no such things, i think. Nevertheless, i dont exclude that possibility, since there are still unexplainable things going on.

now, you dont have to read the rest of my thoughts due to thier atroucity

By definition, religion is a belief, which doesnt grant anything except spiritual richness. Though, i must say, that promised inner luxury is very suspecious. Perhaps, religion is more of a tool to keep people together and have certain rules set up in the society to compensate the lack of the fine laws, which is especially helpful in an uncivilized society (say medieval europe or whatever). More than that, you get unexplainable instantly explained, you think you know who to blame or to thank. Yes, that s right, ladies and gentlemen, a tool of deceit and mass control 8) yes, mass media is our religion :)

Supposingly, i am christian (specifically, russian orthodox). I used to pray and go to church but i have never really believed in it, and never abandoned it. Personally, i dont care that much about religions nowadays. That s why i m not bashing any religion, but there are those that i, softly speaking, wouldnt want to join: buddhism and some others, i would say christianity but i have already been with it :)

meh.... laughing after reading this is welcomed
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Postby Perilous » Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:33 pm

"Nihilist."

Believe there is "a" God. Probably a "devil", but things are neither good nor evil by nature. It is up to us to twist things to one side or the other.

"In a nutshell. "
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Postby Lothar Xemplar » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:25 pm

Pagan - Earth Based.

There are many names for the kind of people I call "Asatru": Norse Pagan, Heathen, Odinist, the Troth, Theodish Belief, even "the religion of the Vikings." Some of us insist on one term and reject the others. In any case, we are the folk who are "true to the Aesir"--the literal meaning of Asatru. We worship the ancient Gods of the Germanic people of Northern Europe: Freya, Thor, Odin, Frigga, Balder, Hel, Sif…

We are not Wiccans. We believe in many Gods, not a God and a Goddess; we meet in Kindreds, Hearths, and Garths, not covens and circles. An Asatru priest is called a gothi; a priestess is a gythia--though in some groups, they may be called elders. We have a Bible--more than one actually. We use the Poetic Edda, the Prose Edda, and the other ancient sources, such as the Germania of Tacitus, to understand the true roots of our faith.

We tend to be more diverse in our opinions than the Wiccans. We have political conservatives and moderates as well as liberals, feminists, and those suspicious of feminism, gay people, and people worried about "the gay agenda." And many of us don't fit any political pattern--supporting both gun rights and gay rights, for example.

We don't trace the history of our religion back to Gerald Gardner. Our religion was revived in 1907 in Germany by the artist Ludwig Fahrenkrog. One of Fahrenkrog's followers, Dr. Ernst Wachler, built an outdoor theater, the Harzer Bergtheater, and produced plays on Germanic themes. During the Nazi era, Fahrenkrog was forbidden to hold public meetings, his group was forbidden to use their group's symbol, the swastika (which they had been using since before the Nazi movement came along), and Dr. Wachler, a man of Jewish ancestry, was sent to Auschwitz, where he died.

The German group died away in the years after the war (though it has since been revived). It was around 1971 that Asatru again sprang to life. Groups began to form independent of one another, in Iceland, England, and the United States. There are a number of Asatru groups in the U.S. today. The Asatru Folk Assembly, the Asatru Alliance, the Troth, the Odinic Rite-Vinland, and the American Vinland Association are some of the best-known groups.

One belief that some, but not all, Asatru believers share is that ancestry is important to one's spiritual life. Specifically, it is believed that a person with one or more ancestors from Northern Europe will get better spiritual benefits from Asatru than would a person with no Northern European ancestors. Similarly, one might believe that an American Indian would get more benefit from American Indian spiritual traditions than would a European-American dilettante. Some people wrongly fear that this belief might feed race prejudice, but, quite obviously, there are people of all races who have at least one Northern European ancestor.

One source of spiritual wisdom that we have in Asatru is the runes. The runes are an ancient alphabet, but more than just an alphabet. The runes are arranged in a meaningful order, in meaningful groupings. They have been used for magic and divination, but they can also be used for prayer and meditation. There are many books on runes, most of them utter nonsense. Choose a rune book by Edred Thorsson, Freya Aswynn, or Kvedulf Gundarsson.

How do you learn about Asatru? First, go back to the ancient sources--the Poetic and Prose Eddas, for example--and to good scholarly books about the Norse and Germanic peoples and their religion. This takes precedence over the unsupported opinions of modern people about what our ancient religion is

My Patron of the god's is Tyr, thus I am a Tyr'sman.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/t/tyr.html
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Postby catsnkisses » Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:17 pm

i'm a cinical materialist - don't really believe in anything i can't feel/observe, and whatever i feel/observe is still subjected to heavy questioning :roll:
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Postby Lien » Tue Jul 26, 2005 9:34 pm

Tough question to answer for me. I am more one to study faith than to partake in it. I read about many beliefs but I don't really believe in any simply because I see no evidence beyond faith itself. So . . . I guess the best way to put it is that I'm religiously non-existent. I am not an atheist, or an agnostic, I simply find religion not to be an issue for me.

All in all my beliefs (not a religion, really) are simply about truth to yourself, and ignoring fear to hold up any virtues/morals that you believe in. If in some afterlife that I have not the skill to fathom, I am punished for this than so be it.
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Postby Ben » Tue Jul 26, 2005 10:18 pm

my mother is russian orthodox

father is catholic

grew up catholic (all the rights except the last couple hehe)

church? maybe once a year


:godseeyou:


did the last one, will post more when my thoughts are better put together might have done all of the above if it was one
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Postby Stygian » Wed Jul 27, 2005 1:31 am

I like to think of myself as incarnate of change, a wanderer with all doors open to me. I get glimpses of what lies through these doors and should I choose to walk through them I get a better understanding of the room, afterwards I can leave as easily as I came. Ever since I was young ive been moving from place to place, never really having a "home", so I have grown accustomed to leaving things behind. In a sense I believe in everything until its been proven otherwise, after all there are more things in this world than the naked eye can keep up with. ^_^
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Postby lividwist » Thu Aug 04, 2005 7:06 am

"Faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we do not see" - Hebrews 11:1

just curious what are your thoughts on that?
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Postby Arturius Maximus » Thu Aug 04, 2005 8:51 am

lividwist wrote:"Faith is being sure of what we hope for, and certain of what we do not see" - Hebrews 11:1

just curious what are your thoughts on that?


I think it's very fitting, particularly the second part. Atheists and agnostics sometimes say there is no physical proof of a Supreme Being. That's true...I can't prove that He exists, but I am certain of it.

More simplistically, it is like how I can't see the wind, but I see what it does, so I believe it to be there.
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Postby lividwist » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:38 am

arthur. my man, you are absolutely right, though "to see" might also to feel with any other sense (except maybe the 6th sense)), which is why the wind example isnt the best one. it s obvious that wind exists since we can feel it and see how it, for example, tousles someones hair.

now, sometimes you can witness evilish people punished by "the god", but dont you think that sooner or later that person will have his ass burnt with his attitude to other people? there is always someone better or worse, i assume.

can i ask what makes you certain of the gods existence?

i am not saying that gods dont exist, i m just wondering what you think....
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Postby Lien » Fri Aug 05, 2005 4:19 pm

I think it's very fitting, particularly the second part. Atheists and agnostics sometimes say there is no physical proof of a Supreme Being. That's true...I can't prove that He exists, but I am certain of it.

More simplistically, it is like how I can't see the wind, but I see what it does, so I believe it to be there.


Aye, I see what you're trying to say, but the analogy doesn't really work. The wind can be proven to exist in any number of ways without seeing it. A supreme being/beings cannot be PROVEN to exist no matter which sense you rely on. You can see what you attribute to this being and that is your evidence. Of course, the very same objects are my 'evidence' to the contrary. :)

So in the end it amounts to those who want to believe have their proof, and those who don't want to believe have theirs as well. ;)
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Postby Arturius Maximus » Fri Aug 05, 2005 7:42 pm

lividwist wrote:
can i ask what makes you certain of the gods existence?

i am not saying that gods dont exist, i m just wondering what you think....


Certainty implies knowledge. I would rather say that I believe He exists. This may be due partly to my religious upbringing, but I think moreso due to events over the course of my life (which I will not enumerate). Faith got me through difficult situations, and prayers have often been answered. Again, though, I don't claim that this is proof.

Also, I believe that life in general and man, in particular, is too complex to have happened randomly. I believe in evolution, etc., but as a result of Intelligent Design.

Let me pivot the conversation a bit...

While I believe in God, I am not quite as sure of the existence of an actual devil....Satan....Lucifer...Beelzebub...however one chooses to call him. I am not opposed to the view that this is more of a construct to condition us to behave "properly". I can't say that there is or is not a devil. What say the rest of you? (Lol...it will be ironic if any agnostics or atheists believe that there is a supremely evil being.)
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Postby Lothar Xemplar » Fri Aug 05, 2005 9:39 pm

And of course, there must be a balance. However, not the very balance most believe in. There is no fine line that extends darkness to one extreme, and hails light to the other.

There is no evil, and there is no good. There is no superior being, if there is no intellectual wonder. There is no supreme might, without strength. You see, the laws of man are what create us. And have continued to keep our evolution on track, so to say.

For example, all men must be governend. For there are rules, and regulations. Laws for all matters of life, let it be death, or by the physics such matters are bound to. No ying, without the yang my friend.

No blood without honor, no death without life. Nor shall you be punished, until you are rewarded. And to gain a palm of steel, rather then to sow ashes across the sky.

No, there are no supreme beings, and no there are no gods. For we, who walk these fields, are superior. We are the ultimate beings. For we have driven ourselves to evolve, before extinction.
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Postby lividwist » Sat Aug 06, 2005 8:37 am

mentioning devil reminded about his/her/its kingdom.....
i think i ve tried to post it already :)
here you go

Subject: Hell
The following is supposedly an actual question given
on a University of Washington chemistry mid-term.
The
answer by one student was so "profound" that the
professor shared it with colleagues, via the
Internet,
which is, of course, why we now have the pleasure of
enjoying it as well.

Bonus Question: Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat)
or
endothermic (absorbs heat)?

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs
using Boyle's Law (gas cools when it expands and
heats
when it is compressed) or some variant.

One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is
changing in time. So we need to know the rate at
which
souls are moving into Hell and the rate at which
they
once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave.
Therefore, no souls are leaving.
As for how many souls are entering Hell, let's look
at
the different Religions that exist in the world
today.
Most of these religions state that if you are not a
member of their religion, you will go to Hell. Since
there is more than one of these religions and since
people do not belong to more than one religion, we
can
project that all souls go to Hell.
With birth and death rates as they are, we can
expect
the number of souls in Hell to increase
exponentially.
Now, we look at the rate of change of the volume in
Hell because Boyle's Law states that in order for
the
temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same,
the
volume of Hell has to expand proportionately as
souls
are added.
This gives two possibilities:
1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the
rate
at which souls enter Hell, then the temperature and
pressure in Hell will increase until all Hell breaks
loose.
2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the
increase of souls in Hell, then the temperature and
pressure will drop until Hell freezes over.
So which is it?
If we accept the postulate given to me by Teresa
during my Freshman year that, "it will be a cold day
in Hell before I sleep with you, and take into
account
the fact that I slept with her last night, then
number
2 must be true, and thus I am sure that Hell is
exothermic and has already frozen over. The
corollary
of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over,
it
follows that it is not accepting any more souls and
is
therefore, extinct...leaving only Heaven, thereby
proving the existence of a divine being which
explains
why, last night, Teresa kept shouting "Oh my God."

THIS STUDENT RECEIVED THE ONLY "A"
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Postby tiffy_macd » Sat Aug 06, 2005 1:20 pm

I honestly do not know what to believe....

Both my parents were anglican and I grew up in that kind of household. Neither were very religious, in fact, I don't ever remember going to church with them at any time. They let me believe whatever I wanted to believe.

I chose to go to Sunday school, bible classes and an anglican youth group once every week. To me, it was "cool" to go to church. That all kinda just feel apart when I was about 10 or 11.

I was baptized and confirmed in an anglican church. Whenever I would stay at my aunts house (she's very religous), she would take me to church on Sundays and I'd help out with the kids in Sunday school. I only went a couple of times though. I was more of a "holiday" church-goer - on Palm Sunday and Christmas Weekend.

Nonetheless, I never had religion rammed down my throat my anyone. My parents let me make my own descision on it. I choose to be agnostic....I believe that there is a supreme being. Things happen that other people cannot explain.

Like a teacher once told me....she believes that we're all one big science experiement. That this "person" or whoever it is - wants to see how long it takes for us to destroy ourselves and our society. And that this "person" let us believe in religion to make life easier to deal with.

Like the Simpsons halloween episode where Lisa does a science experiement with her tooth, some coke, and static electricity. (I know its not THAT simplistic - but you get my drift).

It's all a mystery and no one will really know until they actually die.

I believe in ghosts, aliens and all that other supernatural mumbo-jumbo because of the fact that it IS unexplainable. Albert Einstein's theory was that energy cannot be destroyed, even its its simpliest form. Your living body - the physical - maybe not exist anymore - its rots and goes away, but where does all that energy go - our "soul"....so would explain how "ghosts" exist.
I believe that aliens exist because we simply CANNOT be the only planet in a universe so big, that has living organisms. There is always a possibility. You watch all these movies and hear or read about all these "encounters" - they have to have some truth to them.

Coming back to the topic, yes I believe in a supreme being. Who that person is, I don't know. But I'm not going to worry myself to death about whether or not I'm going to get into "Heaven" or "Hell". I'm living in the now and thats all that really matters.
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Postby Arturius' southern belle » Wed Nov 09, 2005 8:13 pm

I guess I would say that I try to follow something my brother and I have decided to follow and we gave it a name beside just being called PLUR. We call it Ruby-Begoniaism. Just follow the simple rules of peace, love, unity, and respect and all will get along. Ok..maybe not all the time but it is usually the right thing to do!!
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Postby BlackWidow » Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:27 pm

I was born into a very catholic family....however once I completed kinderguarden my parents took me out of catholic school and put me into public. They stopped taking me to church every week and I never got my frist communion...I was baptized though.

I think there is a supreme being. I am a far cry from an atheist. I just think that we are way less complex than we'd like to think we are. The Bible stories that we read, these "myths", "fables", "commandments" I think they all have a hint of truth to them. However I don't think that they are meant to be taken literally.
Socrates was the wisest philosopher(in my opinion) because he always acted as though he knew nothing.
I think that in religion, everyone has all of these theories as to why we are here, some greater purpose, and as if we have the slightest clue. Well I believe we are animals, idiots who think we're more. Our purpose is to reproduce, don't know why, because its all part of some master plan thats way too complex for me to understand, and that won't matter in my life time. WE ARE NOT SPECIAL. Nobody is more important in this world than anybody else. "We are all part of the same compost heap"-Brad Pitt Fight Club
Because no matter what you do, you're still gonna die in the end just like everybody else. So if you spend your life trying to find purpose, its a waste. If you spend your life trying to do everything right for the afterlife, you're wasting your life. Not saying there is no afterlife, but if there is, doubt they really give a shit about what we do here. This is not a trial, practice run, to make sure we're worthy of a better place. This is it. Once you die, you are dead. If you rise up and go to a better place, then I believe you eventually become reincarnated and come back and do it all again. No meaning what so ever.
And if you spend your life trying to prove that you are special, that you have made a difference, that you are spiffy, you have spent your life on other people and didn't leave anything for yourself. Granted there are many who have made a difference, and I completely support those who do it to be helpful. However, there are many so-called "martyrs" in this world who like to be the poor sacrificing victim who lived their life for others and get nothing in return. Blah....do it if you really want to help people, not to get sympathy, nobody really cares after you're dead. Think of Mother Teresa, what happend when she died? I'll bet she got fulfillment, but did other people (besides the ones she helped )really care?

That being said, what I believe in is not inflicting guilt on people for living their life the way they want to live it. MOST I repeat MOST not all religions believe in inflicting guilt(catholic in particular). The idea that if you get pregnant out of wedlock you're going to hell is just rediculous. To bring a child into this world(the very purpose of our being here) should be a good thing right? And for the most part WE fuck ourselves up, not our parents.

Karma. What goes around might not always come around, but it'll definately balance out in the end." You can't always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you just might find ,you get what you need!"-John Lennon

Its the way you percieve life that life percieves you.
You have to give before you can recieve.
You can face a situation as a warrior, or sit around moping.
Nobody can make you happy but yourself. Nobody can change your life but yourself. Occupy yourself. GIVE your life purpose. Do not search for it, life's too short, and you might die soon.

There is a god, I doubt he/she even has a sex. I doubt God cares for churches or praying people. I think God thinks we're selfish, because we are. I think generation by generation god is slowly improving us to actually make a difference and get over our overflow of hormones.

Do what you feel is right, or even what you feel is wrong, as long as you can look yourself in the mirror and still respect/justify(to yourself and nobody else) what you are, then keep living and don't waste a second of it. :disagree:
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Postby Arturius Maximus » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:02 pm

lividwist wrote: let's look
at
the different Religions that exist in the world
today.
Most of these religions state that if you are not a
member of their religion, you will go to Hell.


In my religion (Hinduism), there is not a devil in the same sense as that depicted in the Abrahamic religions. God, in His many incarnations, includes many dark and destructive tendencies, e.g., Shiva, Ganesh, and most of all Kali-ma, an very gothy incarnation of God. (I want a tattoo of Her btw).
I can't recall a reference to Hell, but I could be mistaken on that one. As far as I know, sinners just come back as a lower life form. So, a few weeks after I die, please be careful not to step on any cockroaches. :|
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Postby dark_goddess_76 » Mon Feb 27, 2006 2:30 pm

Arturius Maximus wrote: As far as I know, sinners just come back as a lower life form. So, a few weeks after I die, please be careful not to step on any cockroaches. :|


*snickers*
Who is this irresistible creature who has an insatiable love for the dead? ~ Living Dead Girl!
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Postby Krythos_M_Jarenkai » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:03 pm

I dont actively follow any religion. though if I did believe there is something to have faith in, it would be the mere fact that life must end in order for life to continue. If we did not die, life could not continue for we would just keep replicating and reproducing, and we would be a desease on this world, killing it and then, we would, once again, die.

The only truth in this world, the only thing we can be 100% sure of is that we will die.

this is the closest thing to belief I have.

as for bashing christianity. I wouldnt insult the religion itsself, though I hate those who use religious beliefs to impose their will upon others, this is the same for all religions that would do so.
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Postby Merlinus » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:44 pm

"... create a System, or be enslav'd by another Man's."

I am a Christian in exactly the same sense as William Blake.

"The imagination is not a State: it is the Human existence itself."
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Postby xxcheesy_chaosxx » Mon Jul 09, 2007 1:37 am

currently, i'm pretty much a satanist... at this point in my life, the satanic philosophy goes best with my beleifs. i've learned about a lot of religions, and have tried a few (christianity, wicca, satanist, atheist), and i know that each has benefited me in some way.
but regardless of what religion i am, one of my main beleifs is that whatever you beleive in becomes real. i beleive that this happens due to something i learned about while researching witchcraft, which is called thoughtforms. basically, if you beleive in something enough, it is created on the astral plane and given power by your beleifs. obviously, the more people who beleive in something, the more power it gets. the christian god will be more powerful and more "real" in a way than a diety that i just make up, but both will still exist.
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Re: "Dark" religions

Postby pallete de Arturius » Wed Jun 24, 2009 12:37 am

im at a rather confused point in my life religiously, i was raised a lutheran christian, my mum is agnostic, i was atheist for awhile, read tarot for awhile, drew pentegrams for awhile, i guess im agnostic-ish now, some nights i will pray to the diety(ies) that i might find which is real, i found repeating what little i know of the book of the dead comforting, and the symbols of protection have stopped me from attempting to end my life before... i want to believe in something, if anything i believe in balance, what goes around comes around, if there is a supremely good being there is its counterbalance, whether the two be contained in one skin i could not say. the world is what it is, and it always will be.
Freedom in flames
dance the fire
humanity burns
life is desire

in the end we are all the same, burned by fire, dampened by rain, but who is there enchanted by pain?
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Re: "Dark" religions

Postby yukigurl » Mon Mar 15, 2010 4:40 pm

wicca, though i can admit that i could learn more about it.
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